Monday, September 21, 2009

Freedom of Choice




















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24 comments:

Left Coast Rebel said...

A picture is worth a thousand words....

The Right Guy said...

And so goes a future post. Compliance. That's what all salesmen are, compliance specialists. So are politicians in a way too... how else do you get people to do what they won't normally do or isn't in their best interests?

chuck said...

Its a stupid construct. There is an illusion to be sure; but that illusion is in the bullshit notion that what is today called the "left" is synonymous with what is today labeled as "right". It's an insidious lie. It's more an exercise in masturbation than in serious reflection.

The Right Guy said...

Well, if you find there is a contradiction, then check your premises. It's not that left and right are synonymous per se, but that the path that those that represent them lead us down is, whether intention or by design, born out by the last 9 years.

chuck said...

If one completely ignores reality, your little aphorisms are beautifully constructed. When compared with the real world, however, they are revealed to be childish, self-serving gibberish.

The Right Guy said...

I don't ignore reality, but in fact deconstruct it. Looking at things at purely face value and in black and white is simplistic. I'd love to live in your world as it would make life easier for all of us, but such is not the case.

Your humble aphorist.

The Right Guy said...

Let me put it another way chuck:

You are a salesmen, and like all salesmen, you are a compliance specialist. You know how to influence people to comply with what you want in the context of selling.You have tools like the 4 square, ben franklin, assumptive close, etc. It doesn't matter what you sell, or any salesmen, as you all use the same tools to take advantage of behavioral triggers in humans. Most salesmen I have met didn't care what they sold, as long as they were selling.

Such is politics. Politicians are salesmen. While you and I can agree that a BMW is a better car than a kia, that a Mac is superior to a pc and that dems and republicans are different in philosophy and that we like the GOP side better, the people that represent us and lead us, are salesmen. When you discuss governing and government, on some level you are talking about compliance to an authority and society. Politicians are compliance specialists and in this country we get to choose who we want to be our leaders. My point here is that while we are arguing about which philosophy is best and supporting that choice, the salesmen are only really concerned about their commission, and in that sense, they are the same. They run the show, and for the most part they make up their own team.

Then end result of this is that nothing really changes much no matter who we vote for. Bush presided over some large increases in government and spending. Obama wants even more. Both are wrong, despite what party they belong. It also is an observation of mine that no matter how well intending and vigilant a party is when they assume power, eventually they become corrupted by it.

If politicians wanted to impress me they would give up their "commissions". Politics was never meant to be a life long career or better put it should not be.

chuck said...

Your as ignorant about sales as you are about politics.

Despite what you say, I don't believe you're sincere when you mutter nonsense about there being "no difference" between George Bush and a filthy,little Stalinist like Brakabama.

I don't think you are stupid enough to actually believe there is "no difference" between government taking a quarter of what you earn and government taking two thirds of what you earn. Your problem is you've painted yourself into a ridiculous rhetorical corner so you feel forced to write things you know good and goddam well aren't true for the sake of saving face.

If you seriously claim there is no difference between a mainstream republican and a balls out communist, that isn't a sign of some broad, high-minded perspective on your part. It is, instead, irrefutable evidence that you are mentally retarded and shouldn't be trusted with sharp objects...if, that is, you actually believe that crap.

Again, I seriously doubt you do. You are simply striking a pose.

Yours in earnest,
Chuck

p.s. Do you actually have any idea where Bush left us in terms of debt versus GDP? (and where we are now??) You might do a little reading before you make pronouncements on Bush's "runaway spending". You'll be glad you did. It will save you some embarrassment.

chuck said...

BTW: The "you might also like" doodad is cool as hell. It really dresses up the place. Is it automated?

chuck said...

No difference?

Come now. Be serious.

The Right Guy said...

Insofar as philosophy goes, in the context of what the two parties are supposed to stand for, there is a world of difference. Agreed. Where there isn't a big difference is in the group of individuals we send there to represent us. What I am saying is that as a group, politicians have such attributes and understanding that are very alike than different. This isn't about the philosophy, but what they ultimately do.

As far as Bush goes, if you draw a graph over time, you will see an increase in the size of government and spending under Bush that exceeded even Clinton. The guy rarely vetoed anything. While he isn't the profligate spender that Obama would like to be and is, he was a RINO. Remember that actions speak louder than words.

As far as the doo dads go, yes they are automated and the widget works with wordpress, typeface and blogger.

I would suggest you read Influence Science and Practice by Dr. Robert Cialdini. It's real interesting and revealing about how and why humans comply and what this has to do with sales and other professions that use persuasion.

chuck said...

I don't give a shit about philosophy, friend. That is irrelevant. The choice is between a rain dance and a water hose. Complain all you want about the water hose, but it's superior to a rain dance. Only an idiot would claim the two are equal.

As far as generalizations go, I will freely say that everyone you know and love suck out the ass when compared to my idea of human perfection.

And that's how it works. Ya folla?

Instead of generalizations that condemn everyone, you would do better by your country to choose the best realistic option. Cynicism is fine food for the ego, but it does dick shit for your progeny(a.k.a. the future of our country).

Yours in earnest,
Chuck

chuck said...

BTW: As a particularly good salesman, I know all about method when it comes to steering people into a decision. There is no reason to assume I am going to do anything counter to my customer's best interest, though. I'm not selling watches out of an open raincoat, for goodness sake. Making people happy is the life blood of my profession.

Nothing happens until a sale is made. Every single thing in your life from the largest to the smallest is yours because a salesman got it to you. I believe you had a little Milton Friedman ditty that explained that quite succinctly. Maybe I'm mistaken.

Anyway, to conflate salespeople with politicians is a profound insult to those of us who actually serve the public for a living.

The Right Guy said...

Chuck, I'd rather foment and promulgate something that is better than the two choices we have. If it means steering the bad ship GOP, so be it, but I won't go along with the status quo. Without some cynicism and criticism, nothing changes. The difference is action.

As far as human perfection goes, I am perfectly fine not subscribing to that idea. The only perfect people are in the cemetery, the rest of us are just poseurs.

The Right Guy said...

"Nothing happens until a sale is made. Every single thing in your life from the largest to the smallest is yours because a salesman got it to you. I believe you had a little Milton Friedman ditty that explained that quite succinctly. Maybe I'm mistaken."

I have some things a salesmen had no part in, and actually, I try to cut the salesmen out a process if I can. While there are some ethical salesmen, I have seen enough of them that are not to write a book. I am sure you are ethical Chuck, but you are a rarity where I am from.

chuck said...

I'm not ethical in business because I'm a good person, Friend. I'm ethical in business because I am wise. I can screw my family and they will forgive me...more than once.

I can't screw strangers. It simply doesn't work. It's not a lasting model. Ethics in business is simply common sense. Grifters can't market their past dealings.

Unethical dealings are like a pyramid scheme in reverse. The harder you work, the poorer you get...and rightly so.

Stereotypes don't enlighten.

chuck said...

"I have some things a salesmen had no part in, and actually,"

Unless you're talking about dirt, you don't. Nothing exists without middlemen relaying information from consumers to producers. The common riff about the "dirty jews" being a bunch of takers/middlemen is based on the idiotic notion that you would have anything other than sticks and rocks and dirt if there weren't someone to show you something else.

Even if you can make your own shit, you learned how because a salesman delivered the device that enabled you to learn how.

Best,
Chuck Coffer

The Right Guy said...

While I agree that unethical salesmen usually don't last, when you are dealing with large populations, they will last a bit longer. In places like where I live now, not so much. As far as being ethical in business, I try to do the golden rule. I wouldn't want it done to me, and it doesn't make sense to boot. I am telling you chuck, I have heard some lies that would make satan say he didn't see that one coming.

Your family would forgive you?

As far as dirty jews, I haven't seen many of those, but I have seen quite a few that are very shrewd.

The Right Guy said...

Oh yeah, without something to sell, what would salesmen do? Sell dirt?

chuck said...

If there were nothing but dirt, there would be no salesmen. Just as a fish couldn't sell water to other fish.

You apparently aren't much of a world history buff.

Best,
Chuck

The Right Guy said...

Oh chuck, you are too serious. The next thing I will hear is that you are B'nei noach.

chuck said...

I'm way too serious.

BTW: When I said I'm not ethical because of my goodness. I should have included that being especially good at sales is a byproduct of being ethical. Honesty and excellence are an unstoppable combination in a free economy. Its amazing how many books are written about how to succeed in sales when a single sentence would suffice.....

And I'm willing to offer you that sentence for three easy payments of $19.99...if you call in the next 7 minutes!!


heheee

The Right Guy said...

Send me $5 dollars and I will send you the secret of making money, hee hee.

chuck said...

No thanks. I actually have keep a cork in my wazoo to keep money from shooting out of it.

Rough life, but somebody's gotta live it.

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